An Interview with Mormons

Solvent: Do you mind if I record the word of God?

Elder 1: That’s fine.

S: Is it the word of God, or is it a message from?

Elder 2: It’s nothing pre-planned.

E1: We just talk to people.

S: You talk to people based on what you think people need to hear about your church?

E1: What we do, is we try to speak for ourselves. Discussing questions of why are we here and where are we going… we pray and ask God these things, and he has told me, so I just ask people to try it for themselves. Our invitation is, just listen to what we have to share, and then ask God if it is true.

E2: We do come to teach about what we believe, but that doesn’t make it true until God tells you that.

S: Where are you guys from?

E1: I’m from Dallas.

E2: I’m from Florida.

S: How do you like Canada?

E2: I really like it, still trying to get used to the temperature obviously.

S: When you guys come up to do missionary work, do you pay the Church?

E1: No, but we pay our own way. What happens is there is 56 thousand of us all over the world, and there are always new ones coming in.

S: 56 thousand Elders?

E1: Missionaries I guess you’d call us.

S: Mormonism is supposedly growing very fast. How many members are there now?

E2: There are 13 or 14 million of us.

S: Is that just in Utah?

E1: No no, that is the total. There are actually more member outside of North America than inside.

S: Really? Where are you strongest outside of North America?

E2: Brazil for sure.

S: You guys must be really pissing off the Catholic Church by biting into Brazil, that is big money turf for them…

E1: All we do is invite people to listen… and then it’s their choice. God gave us agency, the ability to choose. Christ himself said: “Come and see”.

S: So you don’t give people reasons not to be a Catholic?

E2: Nope.

E1: We just explain things that we know to be true, and encourage you to ask God if it is.

S: What happens to people who fail to become Mormons by the time of their death? Do they get some eternal hellfire?

E1: They’ll be judged according to the light that they’re given.

E2: It’s not as black and white as heaven and hell…

S: According to your beliefs, is it possible for non-Mormons to go to heaven?

E1: Ya. Just because you are Mormon doesn’t mean you are following God. There are a lot of people that go to church that don’t live it. It doesn’t matter what title you have, it is the life you live that matters.

S: That’s nice. It is easier to have a respectful difference of opinion, when you don’t get told by the other party that the you will perish in eternal hellfire as a result of the disagreement. You can’t make friends like that.

E1: We do however claim that we have truths that are necessary for our salvation.

S: By our salvation, do you mean your salvation, or everybody’s salvation?

E1: Everybody’s salvation. God is an unchangeable God, and He is no respecter of persons.

S: So the truths that you are communicating are necessary for my survival, and if I don’t take those truths as my own, I get eternal hellfire?

E1: It all depends on your relationship with God.

S: I think you’re telling me I’m destined for the hellfire.

E1: I’m not one to judge. We have come to know that we do need to be baptized, we do need to have faith, we do need to repent our sins. Obviously, what God has said is that to go against his will is to be judged for that. We do claim that what we share is part of God’s will. We invite people to hear it, and God works in everybody’s life regardless of their beliefs, even atheists. Even atheists are God’s children.

S: Does God have worse things in store for his atheist kids than his Mormon kids? If I am going to have a relationship with God, I need to know in advance that he is not going to be a difficult God. His son Jesus preaches forgiveness, so I’m wondering what exactly God will not forgive? Will he forgive an atheist for non-belief?

E1: God will forgive an atheist if the atheist repents.

S: By definition that would be impossible. So, God will not forgive an atheist for atheism.

E1: In the scriptures it God says: “Come, be baptized, and repent of your sins. Then you shall be forgiven.”

S: How is repentance different in your religion, than say, in any other Christian denomination? Is there right repentance and wrong repentance?

E2: I don’t exactly know how every different Christian repents. In our religion, we repent our sins, and then forsake them. It is not enough to repent a sin that we intend to repeat.

S: For example a Mormon can’t have coffee right?

E1: Right

S: … but if you do have a coffee, that is a sin that you would repent, be forgiven, and then you would need to forsake coffee in the future in order to maintain the forgiveness. In other Christian denominations, having a Timmy’s is not something that they’d need to repent and forsake. This is an example of Mormon repentance versus, say… Anglican repentance. What happens to the Christian that has the odd Timmy’s? Hellfire?

E1: Everybody has sin. We hate the sin and not the sinner.

S: How did coffee become a sin?

E2: You are judged according to the light and knowledge that you have. The big difference between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and other Christian churches, is that we believe that has been a prophet called by God, in our day. One of the things that he has revealed or brought forth is something called the “word of wisdom”. That deals with no alcohol, no tobacco, and coffee is one of the things that is forbidden. Alcohol and tobacco make sense… I don’t know… I just follow it.

S: Here’s a bit of advice. If you guys are helping to build this business enterprise – and I refer to it thusly because money is changing hands – it may not be a good idea to be removing coffee drinkers from your target market… especially in Canada. You must have noticed a few coffee shops around here eh?

E1: Ya, like on every corner.

S: Have you had anyone tune you out when you told them coffee is a no-no?

E2: I’ve only been here 2 months.

E1: We don’t convert people, so I don’t know. We build our faith by reading scriptures and going to church. It is a process in life, and nothing happens over night. I’m still changing. Everybody’s changing all the way through their lives. That’s the process of repentance. We’re going to make mistakes. God’s allowing us to be forgiven as we try and change. We’re not just here to keep the commandments. We are here to become loving, forgiving, charitable, humble… all these things. Following the commandments are leading to those points. We’re going to become like Christ, and the commandments are there to help us with that.

S: Is your Christ different than the Christ of other religions? Your Christ lived in North America didn’t he? I’m a little fuzzy on the details.

E1: Christ was born of the Virgin Mary in Jerusalem. He suffered on the cross, was resurrected.

E2: He ascended into heaven about a month after that.

E1: Before he had done that he actually went to speak with his apostles. It says so in the King James version of the bible.

S: Oh so you recognize that text?

E1: Ya, I’ve read it my whole life.

S: Nothing in that contradicts anything in the Book of Mormon?

E1: Some people say there are contradictions, but that depends on your interpretation of the book, and everybody has a different interpretation. There are 15 thousand different denominations of Christianity and they all read the King James Bible, and they all get something different out of it. We’re not here to bash on doctrines, we’re here simply to explain what we’ve gotten out of it. Here’s an example. Christ is talking to his apostles: “As the Father knoweth me, even so, knoweth I, the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep.”

S: Who are the sheep?

E1: Us.

S: We’re the sheep?

E1: Every child of God is a sheep, but we have to come into the fold. Some of us have run off.

S: We’re “sheeple”. I use that term because some of us are easily led and don’t question things enough. Those who blindly follow without questioning are “sheeple”. So, would your “sheep” be something like my “sheeple”?

E1: Yes, but I encourage everyone to have their own experience.

S: But part of that experience is being a sheep?

E1: Yes.

S: Sheep get led to slaughter by shepherds don’t they? I don’t know if I want to be a sheep.

E1: Christ is the shepherd and he is leading us to salvation.

S: Okaaaaay…

E1: So anyway, he continues on and says: “… and other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I shall bring and make them hear my voice and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

S: Are all sheeps equal?

E1: No, no sheep is better than any other sheep. They just make different choices.

S: What chapter did you just read out of there?

E1: John 10:15.

S: That bible reference is very appropriate because we’re talking about whether or not you guys are competing with other religions for sheep. What you’ve just said is that all sheep are equal although some of them do not belong to your fold.

E1: All sheep are equal, but in the end we are going to be judged for our deeds.

S: Another thing that happens to sheep is that they get fleeced. How much money do you guys require from people? Do you guys do tithing?

E1: Yes, we pay 10% of our earnings to the Church just as it says in the Old Testament.

S: Makes sense. If the sheep get too woolly you have to trim them up a bit.

E1: Anyway, to answer your question about Christ in the Americas. This scripture, is referring to other groups of people, other nations. The Book of Mormon was written by prophets that lived in the Americas. These prophets were commended by God just as the prophets in Jerusalem.

S: There are multiples? I thought there was just Joe Smith. He didn’t write the whole Book of Mormon?

E1: No, Joe Smith didn’t write any of it.

S: All I know about Mormonism comes from South Park. Do you find that with other people too?

E2: Ya

E1: Oh ya. So anyway, this book was written by Prophets that were called by God to the Americas from 600 BC to 400 AD. Joseph Smith didn’t live until 1820 AD. These prophets were commended by God to teach in North America, and Christ went and visited these people. After he ascended into heaven, he then descended to talk to people in North America.

S: This continent is separate from everything else, so people around here would not have figured it out for himself, so he must have realized he’d be leaving North Americans behind unless he paid a visit here.

E1: We’re all God’s children, so why would Jesus just appear to one group of people?

S: Australia was also not connected by land to the Middle East, did he go there? Or did he leave them behind?

E1: It says in the Book of Mormon that Jesus went to visit the “Isles of the Sea”.

S: That should pretty much cover everything I guess. From that, you would not be able to say what he didn’t visit.

E1: That’s true. There is nothing that is not an isle in the sea. So that is our unique message. We believe that Jesus visited other people, and that there are other books of scripture besides the King James Bible. Everybody limits God. They say he only wrote the Bible. Who are you to limit God in what he can do, in what he can say, and what he can write? God can do whatever he wants. The Book of Mormon was buried about 425 AD, and it was brought forth in the 1800’s by Joseph Smith.

S: I’ve got something for you to think about.

E1: What?

S: You say: “Who can limit God?”

E1: Yes.

S: But you also say that God does stuff.

E1: Yes.

S: Doesn’t that fact that God acts presuppose some opposition to that action? The existence of opposition, is a form of limitation.

E2: I would say that the action that he does … we claim different things… we know that he is a loving god… he is a god that has the attributes of Christ you might say… and so we, through study and through prayer … ah jeez I’m running out of time here… we can figure out the actions that he might take but… we’re not… ah I lost my train of thought.

S: Don’t worry about it.

E1: Either way, we just invite people to read the Book of Mormon.

E2: Our simple message is that we share our message. We are inadequate teachers. We don’t know everything but if people ask us, they can ask God if these things are true, and he will tell them.

S: That’s a good attitude to have. Hopefully North Bay treats you guys good.

E2: It has so far, there are lots of great people here.

S: Thanks guys.